หมวดหมู่ของบทความนี้จะพูดถึงprint object หากคุณกำลังมองหาprint objectมาสำรวจหัวข้อprint objectในโพสต์3d printing multiple objects at once vs single object 3D printing (one-by-one) – same strength?นี้.
สรุปข้อมูลโดยละเอียดที่สุดเกี่ยวกับprint objectใน3d printing multiple objects at once vs single object 3D printing (one-by-one) – same strength?
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นอกจากการอ่านข้อมูลเกี่ยวกับบทความนี้ 3d printing multiple objects at once vs single object 3D printing (one-by-one) – same strength? คุณสามารถหาข้อมูลเพิ่มเติมด้านล่าง
#printing #multiple #objects #single #object #printing #onebyone #strength.
3d printing multiple objects at once vs single object 3D printing (one-by-one) – same strength?.
หวังว่าเนื้อหาบางส่วนที่เราให้ไว้จะเป็นประโยชน์กับคุณ ขอบคุณมากสำหรับการดูบทความของเราเกี่ยวกับprint object
44 thoughts on “3d printing multiple objects at once vs single object 3D printing (one-by-one) – same strength? | เนื้อหาprint objectที่มีรายละเอียดมากที่สุด”
OK, closer to solving the mistery (thx to comments), I have to figure out how to check this. Possible reasons:
– with multiple 3D printing extrusion stops (even retract 0.8 mm back to nozzle) and filament melts more in nozzle during the travel. And it stick to next layer better
– in prusa slicer "Slow down if layer printing time is below: 15 seconds", nut sure how can this make layer weaker, but this also may resulted the weaker adhesion with single printing.
When I print multiple objects I set it for one at a time. It will print the first object completely then go on to the next object. But you need space between each object for the printhead to move around.
The multi part print has better layer adhesion because the layers have time to cool.
You have to think about that 3rd layer below your two working layers. On a single small part print it's still soft when the new layer goes down so it's getting moved and heated a little and compromised. It's like wiggling two objects you are trying to glue together.
At 3:01, you mention needing a “sex permit”. Why is that?
I generally print mono color copies as single prints because I get them faster. I never thought about strength. It's interesting though. For multi-color prints I print copies together. Color swaps are expensive both in using a massive amount of purge for the color change, but also you have to wait for the actual swap per layer. I can go from a print where nearly half the time is purge and half the material as well down to a lot less with relative amounts. The color change is essentially free for each additional object.
Do you think that they would be stronger if using a different style of infill settings
Have you tried this test with 100% infill? I'd like to see if there's a difference. I did some flashlight and Leatherman holsters at 100% infill out of petg carbon filament and the singles seem to be way stronger them the ones printed in multiple.
Multi printing gives the layers time to cool down. Allowing it to become solid layer by layer. Material use can also play a huge factor.
Also not what I would have guessed… Funny right?
I would love to chat with you (meet with you) you are a great scientist and your methods are very good.. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. Peace. Rolf.
Problem is the center of the bed is usually lower or higher then the edges with the adjustment knobs. So you would have to print the single parts near the knob.
fascinating the multi ones are stronger also is the strength more if you print it on its side ?
are you using any part cooling? With a single item, your fan blows constantly on the part, rapidly cooling the part and slightly decreasing (theoretically) the layer adhesion. With multiple parts, your part cooling fan spends more time away from the part allowing the layers to cool more slowly and granting (again theoretically) better layer adhesion. A larger sample size and playing with the printing speeds/cooling settings could confirm this.
Was ur weather differnt during printing my next best guess is cooling actualy helps
The reason is the heated bed. Long prints anneal with time. PLA is stronger with anneal. Who's paying for drinks!? 🙂
The difference is that in the single the layers are printed on hot layers, in the multi the layers are printed on cold layers.
The outcome you are seeing has to do with two different effects. One is surface tension and the other is plasticize flow. When the lower layer is still plasticize its surface tension will cause it to move out of the way of the new layer being placed on top rather than mixing with the top layer. In other words the lower layer will just squish down because of its semi-solid state rather than mixing with the upper layer because of the surface tension. Once the lower layer has cooled to a more solid state it will re-melt but because of its solid state it can't as readily move out of the way of the new layer material and will be forced to mix with the new layer being added on top.
When printing with hot material into a not cooled down layer, the result is less precise. The structure is not as regular for single prints and the layers do not overlap optimally. My question would be, did the you see any differences in print quality between the S and M objects? Did the S objects look as smooth as the M objects where they broke?
Very cool that you are doing these experiments! Not the result I was expecting either. Thank you for your efforts and sharing.
Just an idea what may be causing this is that if the plastic is molten and gives better adhesion with layers (single part) then it may create a single homologous solid which means that when the part cracks the crack will propagate throughout the part. This means a singe crack would break the whole part more easily. With the multiple parts the layers still adhere to each other but more like multiple strands of plastic. This would add to strength similar to how rope and carbon fibre work. It would add strength but also prevent a single crack from propagating throughout the whole part. Just an idea though 😜
Average overall temp of the print area could have been more uniform. Also further cooling time between layers of each part potentially allowing for a better bond to the prior layer.
That good engineer quip – nice. Sadly, I can't help you, as I am not. I'm curious to see if anyone has a good theory as well. Crazy stuff.
Is the plastic a 'glass' or is it crystalising when cooling down. Perhaps there is an unknown effect occurring printing multiple parts? Is there better bonding at slightly lower temperatures? Is there some oxidation occurring? Could you put the printer in a sealed bag with nitrogen gas flush to eliminate oxygen?
Hey! about Strength Difference ( 5:58 ) ( Explanation )
it may be the Temperature and / or Humidity Difference, in the room when you print ( maybe the Sun Look in to the room )
+ thanks for the Videos : )
i expected the multi-object to print with better quality and possibly better layer adhesion, but my best guess would be either the fan is higher on the smaller layers, or sometimes when the cross-section is small, the printing won't turn out as well and it will end up with a slightly lower cross-sectional area although I'm not sure this would make a difference of 10%.
it would be interesting to see if you modified the gcode so that it printed the object and then retracted and waited for about 20 seconds before printing the next layer if you would get results more on par with the multi-part print.
It would be great to see some desktop FDM manufacturers to implement budget laser technology (eg. LIDAR) for live 3D monitoring and detecting irregular layer paths that leads to issues (bird nest, warping, bad extrusion etc.) and automaticaly excluding part from printing, pausing whole print, or even more advanced – calculating live corrections.
I bet it had more to to with the surface of cooled layers being not as smooth as freshly printed. So the next layer has more surface area to stick on
Testing idea: 2 pipes in vase mode, 1 at printed at normal speed, 2nd pipe printed at very slow speed.
Another thing that stands out is one of your multi had the same breaking point as the singles. Only one of your multi was printed in the center of the bed, like all the singles. Could the placement on the bed be causing this? EDIT: the multi that broke at 80 does look like the center one, you put a slightly longer 1st stroke on the M.
Hypothetically bed could be higher at the corners giving a better squish to each layer. Could be due to heat differences from center to corner or retraction etc etc. Could rule this out by marking the multi parts with a seperate number (0-4) and single parts with s in future test. Or by printing singles in the same points as multi (m0-m4) (s0-s4). Perhaps print s3 and s4 after the multi part print.
Convection? I noticed there was 1 multi print that was similar to the singles and I'm guessing it was in the center of the bed. Also the 84 kg multi may have been next to the control panel and all the others were on the outside where bed convection brought in cool air. It's the same reason why you use walls to keep a steady temperature for materials that don't like having temperature differences. I would print the multi prints again and mark the bed location on each part. You could also print the singles on an outside corner of the bed to see if they are different. For extra credit you could look at the convection flow with a schlieren setup. 😉👍
Wow, not what I would have expected either
Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us 🙂
Hi Igor, maybe sequential multi printing could be a nice compromise in between the 2 methods. Its Obviously needs a bigger (or at least medium) size bed. And i am not sure if its possible to do with different objects, or they have to be identical. (i am a beginner)
By the way… I have no faint idea how this result is possible. Crystallisation by reheating each upper layer? Some kind of annealing-hardening. I think there is chance you just explored a phenomena in 3D printing! I think it worth to do some further experimenting.
Hey. Try this. Set your infill feed to an odd number like 89%. Now edit the code. Insert a G4 P250 before each G1 F1234 or what ever it is. This creates a spot weld dwell point. Much stronger layers. I would like to see the results. Works for me.
Please try it with different material, this result is really interesting.
I have idea, MAYBE , while travelling to next part -> the retracted material in the nozzle gets more melted / more hotter , and when extruded on the part, it will stick to layer better ?
With Octoprint, you can delete an element from the plate when it fails and keep printing the others. You may need a plugin, I can't remember
Very interesting results! It really shouldn't matter, and I doubt it's the reason for the unexpected results, but perhaps for testing something like this you should print the "single" parts at the same 5-point locations on the print bed instead of printing them all in the center.
Is it possible the S failed at a lower value because they were printed first (so the filament was more on the outside and not as dry)?
As shown in this scientific paper http://fullcontrolgcode.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Author-version-Interlayer-bonding-has-bulk-material-strength-in-extrusion-additive-manufacturing-New-understanding-of-anisotropy.pdf the main factor affecting interlayer bonding is the surface area between the extruded lines of each layer. When you use the minimum layer time option you slow down and give some time for the already extruded material to solidify and provide a good "flat" or "stable" surface for the next layer's extrusion line to be laid upon. In single object printing the material is not solid enough, because the 8-9 seconds layer time is so short the material has not formed a hard "flat"/"stable" surface to accept the next layer of material, it is still soft. In multiple objects, 40+ seconds means that the material is solid/hard enough and the next layer is printed on a more stable surface resulting in slightly increased contact surface area between extrusion lines. Your testing shows about 10% more surface area. How much energy/heat remains in the previous layer does not impact interlayer bonding, because I don't think in FDM we are "heat welding" the material to itself. Soft material if affected and made "wavey" by even hotter material above it. That is why for example the overhang in the front of a 3D Benchy is deformed if the heated bed temperature is too high. The radiating heat from the bed keeps the already printed material soft and the next layers affect it. Also I think the single prints have a less clean outer surface on the 10mm diameter segment. To try and summarize "Cooling down means solid/hard/stable base surface->more surface area between extrusion lines of previous(base) and following layer->slightly better interlayer bonding".
Once you know the answer to why the Multi was stronger, can you please make a follow-up video to explain these results?
Hello Igor. Thanks for share this info for us. What do you thing what happening if U will playing with the minimal layer time? ( ex: setup the slicer software : layer time under 15s –> the printing speed will automaticly decrease till not reach the 15s ) It can help for the small cross sections or not?
I did not expect that. We need a specialist on FDM materials who would know about layer adhesion, cristalisation point (T°), cooling, time spent on the bed… and other factors I am not aware of.
Thank you for your time and effort !